Well, its combination of:

• Okita, one of two GudaGuda face, is Shinsengumi member, so her character background and development effectively tied to them.

• Shinsengumi is very popular in Japan, due to how it basically a police group with only Hijikata and Okita as de facto good people in organization. The rest had dark, shady side on their record. Yamanami, Heisuke, Saito, Shinpachi, even the usually-portrayed-as-kind-pacifist Kondou. Japanese audience can't get enough of them because that shady side is very open to interpretation (e.g. JP players suspected Kondo in current event is Avenger Kondo based on him falsely accused for Sakamoto Ryoma assassination due to his political stance given Katsu Kaishu is also in this event)

• Nobu is tied to Sengoku era, which if you look at titles like Samurai Warriors and Sengoku Basara do have the characters for variation, however there's this can of worms called 'Hideyoshi' who known for his invasion attempt to China and Korea. Both playerbase wouldn't take it well if FGO ever try to portray Hideyoshi as super good guy, resulting on Sen no Rikyu (Hideyoshi friend) / Komahime (Hideyoshi tragic lover) story.

• Following previous point, Keikenchi (GudaGuda main writer) have to be able to maneuver pretty well as, you can see from his past works, that he intended Nobu part represented Japan three founders (Oda - Hideyoshi - Ieyasu) while Okita part represented late Tokugawa - Meiji restoration period. All mythical beings are the main story writers responsibility and have to go through Nasu first.

CMIIW.

>>See, that's the thing, they're supposed to be complicated. It's not black and white

Exactly. That's why I don't like seeing them beautified as if their evil side never existed. The FGO developing team is totally capable of making it, they proved themselves by making Columbus a sincere slave trader, and Black Beard a deadly pirate but at the same time a well mannered otaku. They just chose not to give it a go on any Shinsengumi characters.

And there are many other Meiji-based animes or dramas on the topic. So far as I had seen, most of them are using the same beautification formula. Ryoma the peace lover who just loves his friends, Izo the lonely genius who just wants to prove himself, and Okita the sick but gentle sword genius...

They are supposed to be complicated, but they are not. They are over-simplified by every writers to make them likeable, everyone is innocent after the beautification process. It seems like their motivation and their beliefs aren't important at all.

What exactly do you want from their 'evil side', though?

FGO portrays them as absolutely ruthless killing machines half the time, Okita's voice change during and after she's done fighting literally shows that. So you want them to be mean to the Master too?

Columbus is the exact opposite of the Shinsengumi, in a way. While the Shinsengumi gets whitewashed in public perception as people get to know them more, Columbus's legacy gets more stained the more we know about him.

Also, Shinsengumi members weren't exactly harbouring strong political beliefs. They were martial artists at their core, and they almost treated the Shinsengumi as a different entity, something beyond the Shogunate's police. To them, it was a place that accepted them and comrades to stand beside.

I see your point about getting to see their 'darker' sides, but we see that plenty when they fight. They don't need to be stuck up and mean when they players perceive them to be tragic swordsmen. I'm talking about the overall player base, not just contrarians.

>>"What exactly do you want from their 'evil side', though?FGO portrays them as absolutely ruthless killing machines half the time, Okita's voice change during and after she's done fighting literally shows that."

That is just them being serious. Other servants do that as well. Even Berserker Fran who isn't really talking has this serious intonation.

I want their evil side to be portrayed in event scenarios and my room/valentine voices. They can either go "I thought the globalised Japan will be terrible, but now it seems like it's not all that bad" or "I still hate it, I want my clean Japan back"...Just give some references. Admit what happened.

>>"While the Shinsengumi gets whitewashed in public perception as people get to know them more,"

On the contrary. Shinsengumi's public perception is pure white. They are handsome lovers in otome games, hardworking police in many animes. Even if they attack some activists, it's just "them doing their job". Most Meiji-based fictions do not portrait them robbing money or trespassing into civilian properties, which they did. If you started your Meiji history with Hakuoki, you would be shocked when you get to know their originals.

Gintama is the only exception I know so far, they had innocent people killed and Okita admitting it, while commenting "it's either kill or be killed at the time, sorry". That's what I want.

>>"Also, Shinsengumi members weren't exactly harbouring strong political beliefs. They were martial artists are their core"

That is a political belief. Choosing to serve a master, no matter whom that is, is a belief. Even choosing not to stand for any political parties is a political belief.

And may I speak for Yamanami...Killing anyone who is leaving your party is not only a belief, that makes the group an evil cult.

Of course it is also a belief, a value! They see the Shinsengumi entity as something divine, they value their group over one's free will and one's life, and they don't allow any mistakes to be fixed. You can't go and find out it's not suitable for you and say "sorry my bad, I got into the wrong club, bye bye".

Do you know what other famous groups have the same practice of killing the leavers? No not the Yakuzas, they only cut your finger off. Not the FBI either... The Aum cult kills leavers. That's how bad it is.

I neither like nor dislike them. I simply don't care about them. I had never heard of any of them before they were released in game. I don't care about most of the Japanese historical figures in general (or any historical figure I don't know much about really) because I'm not well versed in their history. This is the same reason I've never really enjoyed Gudaguda events. Of course this is entirely my own problem, and no fault of the game. They're definitely very popular in Japan otherwise I doubt they'd keep releasing them. I grow to like some of them like Iyo who I really like, but in general I don't care about them.

@NZRdl This is a truly pointless debate, if I've ever seen one. Each and every one of your points can be refuted, but our views differ so much that it's gonna go on forever, and that's not how I wish to spend this day.

I can only hope my perspective remains open to enjoying these romanticized tragedies and never turns as sour and blatantly seeped in realism as yours. Good day.

Writers should not romantise tragedies by ignoring real tragedies and making a new one from the ruin of what they had ignored.

It is the realism that makes the historical fiction genre. Otherwise you don't have to call your character Okita of Shinsengumi. You can just call her Alice of the Pacific Island Enforcers, something like that.

@NZRdl @GudakoAlter61 there is a lot to unpack here. Thank you for that spirited debate. Both of you have merits, and it really is a harsh difference of opinion.

I'll give my take as a gaijin with moderate knowledge of Japanese history.

It feels like a big portion of the Japanese people have an exaggerated reverence for the Shinsengumi. As you've both pointed out, they are mainly romanticized in works of fiction - and in FGO's case, every character in this game is a romanticized version of sorts; I mean Jack the Ripper is a loli, Jacques de Molay is a hot waifu, so is all three versions of Nero - that's unavoidable when you have to sell a game.

The Shinsengumi are depicted as tragic, heroic samurai—the "last of a dying breed" from Japan's pre-modern, warrior-driven era. This resonates with some men who, consciously or not, admire this old-school masculinity, a trend seen in conservative leanings across cultures. Women may be drawn to their "badass" image, as the Shinsengumi embody a rugged, masculine ideal.

Personally, I'm neutral but lean annoyed, as I'd prefer more diverse Japanese figures in the game.

They probably have, but the Shinsengumi People are very popular, just based on the amount of representation they get in anime and they probably just like bringing multiple characters of the same group, we have like 7 Hassans and I don't know how many saberfaces.

And we also have lot's of other japanese Servants, some people that did some type of art, some martial artists, some folklore entities and a few yokais at least. Also a God, if you want to count Tamamo or Kenshin. We just have a lot of japanese Servants in general (around 100, tho there are dupes and type moon originals)

Think of how heroic spirits manifest: how people perceive them

So, the FGO Shinsegumi are like that because that's how people envision them.

Think of Napoleon's comment on how he looks as a heroic spirit.