Talk:Artoria Pendragon (Lily)/@comment-2A02:120B:C3E3:1DF0:F1C3:6A32:967C:861B-20180318053934/@comment-29893250-20180404021425

Scrap team comp? Ok. Artoria vanilla is better than lily in the tiny modicrum part of the game that involves using either as a solo unit (thus no team) or a really bad team where farming by NP is not the object.

8726 x 7 (NP mod) = 61082

12221 x 4 x 1.18 = 57683

Just as reference. This does factor in charisma, btw. Want to talk CEs? Easy. If you're using a scope, Lily does the job equally or better as in a battle of scopes, your game plan is to quick farm by firing off and clearing rounds. Health is typically not an object in a battle where you are taking in such a strategy, nor is the strength of your basic attack. Artoria vanilla's lower NP damage is minimal, likely to complete said task regardless of which you choose. So no, she's not better, she's equal as stated before. Dealing with frags? Frags are more about critting to aid NP gain than expecting either of them to do big damage with heavy normal hits. Again, this plays to Lily's favor as she is better in a team comp that makes use of said stars (arts NP cycle) whereas Artoria's charisma is pretty bad in such teams where the other servants are typically not so good at dishing out non NP damage. So if you gave them both frags, Lily is only going to be comparatively better than if neither had a CE. If you want to talk about augmenting stats with CEs, Lily has a higher modifier so every point of attack means more to her damage output than to Artoria. So it only comparatively favors her. For hp, again more stats again only benefit Lily more as they will decrease the chance of bad RNG taking her out (though it is more likely it'd kill someone else than either of the sabers). I neglected to mention CEs because in general, when you add CEs on both sides, lily only benefits more from them than vanilla Artoria. So if Lily is better without them, she's better with them by extension. And she is.

For all the other CE's the better question is "why use any of these"? Lily's bond CE is bad. Sure. Artoria's bond CE is also not so great either unless you need that extra attack for farming matters... but then why are you using either of them in the battle? It isn't that there aren't places where vanilla Artoria is better. It is that all of those places are places where you shouldn't be using her or lily in the first place. It is like half of the pie got mud slathered over it and vanilla Artoria's is better on the mud slathered side. Lily is better on the half that's still clean. To me, only the clean side matters. No one cares whether this mud slathered piece tastes better than that mud slathered piece. Neither is appetizing.