Talk:Astolfo (Saber)/@comment-37888553-20191130042019/@comment-44283522-20191201232030

Ok to those thinking Kiara and Abby are underwhelming let's not forget the fact that most of the extra class had subpar start offs due to DW's experiments. Which if tweaked a bit more would all be decent

Avenger: Dantes moves so fast in his NP to make afterimages but doesn't have an evade on it but Astolfo Rider does? He's released BEFORE Dantes so there's no reason why not.

Alter Ego: They released 3 at once and all of them had at least one problem. Lip's a semi tank with a berzerker deck who didn't resist anything until an equally rare type was added. Melt was actually pretty good apart from Melt Virus pre strengthen and it wasn't that bad. Kiara's skill CDs wouldn't be that bad if most of them weren't 1 turn effects, reduce all those 50% skills to 30% over 3 turns and she would've been decent then throw Tamamoe and she'll be a beast.

Ruler: Joan imo was bad at launch and the only thing that saved her was her class really. Same thing with Kiara here but again class saves her. The NP strengthen helped. Even Amakusa had his problems but decent, tho if they added that undead, demon and demonic trait target to his and Joan's stuns it would've made perfect sense and be pretty good.

Foreigner: Abby's only real problem is her NP gain and her deck similar to Illya. Just fix the gain rate and give her BBQAA with a B/A NP and she's good.

Moon Cancer: Lucked out cuz it's a class specific to BB so she had to be good especially since Avenger is the most common place extra class.

Dantes and Abby were prototypes to their class with a more perfected servent released soon after. Kiara was given her beast skills but nerfed by CDs thinking it'll be balanced. Joan was given her skillset thinking her class would justify it.

I've never properly used Lip or Amakusa so I might be wrong with them