Talk:Sieg/@comment-35080849-20180613070626/@comment-36465691-20180804212220

@FGOHikaru

-have no merit, speak bout idealistic stuff without any ability to back his pretty speech until for some reason some kind of power comes to his hand.

Correction. Sieg never spouts idealism(that's Jeanne's schtick) until the very end when he actually does have the life experience(not power) to back it up and even then he's just refuting Gilles and Amakusa's 'hurr durr humanity is evil and selfish and hopeless there's no such thing as goodness in the world hurr durr' because even with his limited experience and having seen both the best and worst of humanity in extreme situations that most wouldn't in their entire lifetime he can confidently state hey 'maybe human beings are bad but that doesn't mean that there's no good out there at all' which shockingly enough isn't even remotely wrong if you're not looking at life from the eyes of some edgy misanthropic cynic.

Prior to that all he wanted to do was save his siblings and help the people who helped him out BEFORE he even knew he obtained power from Siegfried's heart besides being able to walk and breathe without it hurting. Never does he go around shoving ideals down someone's throat or making pretty speeches because he feels righteous, he's just expressing his emotions as a formerly enslaved person that thinks his brothers and sisters who are also being enslaved and used as canon fodder with no say or choice of their own just to die in fear in sadness is....WRONG? He even says often he doesn't know for sure if what he's doing is right or wrong, because he doesn't know if it's right for beings born to be tools to have lives of their own, but still he at least wants to DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT. You know, like a person proactively taking control of their life to help those who can't help themselves?

-Personally tho what I hate from Apo is quite minor for most people out there,, that is the shoehorning or even worse, a blantant violation of prior rule or info established in prior work particularly FSN and to some degree Extra and CCC.

Different Timelines. Different rules. If Jeanne pointing out there's been HUNDREDS of Great Holy Grail Wars before this curent one didn't clue you in on that I don't know will.

-The most obvious one is Dr. Siegfried magical heart transplant... I mean in FSN it's been established that

1. A transplant betwen magical entity to human need a specialized spiritual doctor like Yorokobe Priest.

2. Even under specialist hand the success rate of the operation is close to 0, Shirou - Archer is an exception because they're the exact same person and thus the new parts doesn't reject each other (it is said that in case of servant it wouldn't be weird if the human body will explode instead), and

3. Even for 100% matchup like Shirou x Archer transplantation, there is a severe side effect that would kill Shirou if not for the help of Saint Martin Shroud. This is because the differences between Servant and human base ability; the Hand will try to take over the body via it's power and the process is described like he's been invaded by Archer hands.

now not only Dr. Siegfried for some reason have some kind of ancient germanic surgery abilty to attach a heart just by shoving it to the chest, the end fact that Sieg body FOR SOME REASON have 100% compatibility with the heart and just like that gained a BODY that could live for a 100 years! much wow very awesome lul.

like seriously if Siegfried heart rejected Sieg body he'll end up in bloody smitherens instead, and EVEN if they have compatible body, Shirou even with all that training are dying each time he used Archer hand.. and what again? for 3 minutes you can become servant? I understand the dragon reactor that came with the heart but how the fuck did he obtain a dragon skin? like what is that a summoning? no? it's just a transform? so you get a heart donor from Saber and you can transform to Saber or something?

see this is the differences between Shirou Emiya and Sieg, while it's admitedly Shirou have the edge being the older works thus the setter of standard, but all of his ability are not instant or doesn't have any explanation, or even like "lul I'm lucky I'm win because I could". That kind of "it just works!" logic might works in Shounen but not exactly what I looked for in Fate and hence my problem with Apocrypha as a whole..

Fundamentallly Shirou/Archer's situation is different from Sieg/Siegfried. For starters, Sieg isn't human, he's a magical entity himself. A homunculus, specifically. Beings that, unlike normal humans, have completely pure bodies and souls that allow for transformations and possessions without having to worry about spiritual rejection that a humans have to. Take for example, Illya, Irisviel, and Justeaze turning into the Holy Grail. That said, Siegried's heart is a spirit core/mana reactor so there wasn't any need for delicate surgery from a spiritual doctor like Kirei since Sieg's built-in circuits meant to connect to Servants in order to provide mana via spiritual link as a homunculus are able to connect themselves to Siegfried's heart which, again, is one giant lump of magic. So by means of their connection Sieg has a pseudo-contract/spiritual connection with Siegfried that allows him to summon Siegfried using the heart and his own body as a catalyst allowing the transformation and possession. But even that has a limit because Heroic Spirits are huge entities hence he can only do so for 3 minutes at a time. The dragon skin is the result of the dragon blood in siegfried's heart infecting him (which also significantly cuts down that 100 year lifespan he obtained thanks to the strong lifeforce of the heart) and the soul of siegfried trying to overwrite Sieg's own existence and fafnir's curse increasing everytime he transforms.

AIt's not just a case of shonen's 'it just works' trope. The author goes into EXTREME detail to explain how it works in story. Multiple times. Even in the anime. Like it or hate it, everything in Apocrypha has a reason or setup behind it, don't just take everything at a surface level. That's how you end up hating something for reasons that aren't even the case.