Talk:Arjuna/@comment-2001:E68:5447:528C:61F7:BBDC:103D:C1D0-20180215112247/@comment-28209103-20180222091526

for Kavcha and Kundala it has nothing to do with his rivalries with Arjuna, it's because he decided that anyone that asked for alms after he pray to Surya shall receive whatever he wanted, in Celtic myth it's like a geass. Karna are being told in advance by Surya that Indra will ask for his armor when he did his morning prayer, Karna said let it be and originally he planned to give it for free.. Surya is the one urged him to take Vasavi when Indra wanted to trade the armor for something else later.

And yes in Nasuverse the role are pretty much reversed. this is very much true. If we look at Mahabharat in modern term Karna is actually asked to be judged in meritocratic way, this is why he feels indebted to Duryodhana who took him as his friend and equal regardless of his chaste.. similarly he feels like Arjuna took his rightful title of the best archer just because he's born as Khsatriya (think of it as equal to Noble in European society). From modern value what Karna did is essentially someone who refused to be limited by his chaste and rise through the rank of King from peasant using his talent and wit; obviously in modern value he's closer to our description of "good guy" given that liberalism and equality seems to be the norm these days.

However Karna is not all-noble-no-evil. He allied himself on the side of injustice or at least that is the value contained in the Mahabharat (I mean technically Duryodhana claim that none of the Pandava is actually related to Pandu by blood is true) and by the will of fate they have to lose.. Even if Arjuna do fall in battle, Khrisna will go batshit insane and destroy everything in his stead.. the reason.. is something I scarcely understand so I can't explain why. but this is OOT

back to topic, Karna are by no means a saint as it's potrayed in Nasuverse, he is human, he got angry, he made mistake, there's time where he lose and he share the things that his side done for.. However the only time where he's at loss of what to do is when Kunthi conform him and told him of his origin.. but even then he decided that he should do what he need to do even while promising that Kunthi will have all 5 of his son intact after the war (either him or Arjuna shall survive) This is the thing that is great bout Karna, a man who decide his own fate and the one who're not afraid to take hard decision.

Arjuna on the other hand are literally the perfect hero, In modern term he's the representative of the so called "upstart" or bourgeois. He started as a noble, he's blessed with talent, he's loved by everyone and blessed by everyone. He and his whole family are framed and by conspiracy they lose their rightful place as royalty (well objectively speaking it's their fault for agreeing to that game of dice but whatever) Anyway from his exile to the Chateau d- I mean journey he came back even stronger with more allies to re-claim their throne from Kurava.

There is some similarities between Arjuna in Nasuverse and OG that is Arjuna are indecisive.. there's a lot of etime where Arjuna waver, the most famous being right before Khuru war started where Arjuna don't wanna go to war with his still blood related Kurava, his grandparent Bhisma, and his mentor Drona.. it took Khrisna exactly a book length of lecture, showing him his true form and whole lot of back and forth dialouge before he actually made up his mind to fight (the book is commonly known as Bhagavad Gita btw)

During the war there's a lot of time where life are lost because Khrisna will it so,, even tho it's from his own family all Arjuna do is said "this is fine" because Khrisna said so.. for example when Gathotkacha fell by Vasavi, Khrisna are so hyper because the biggest threat to Arjuna are gone... Arjuna saw this and protest but he shut up once Khrisna said otherwise..

Since explaining it in religious philoshopy is probably hard for you to swallow then let's use modern one to make it easier.. Karna as I said is ubermencsh, he's a guy that refused to live according to set society value and believe in his own potential. In a world where Gods does exist and interact with human Karna refused to live according to their whim. He live with his decision and he accept the hardship it gave. This kind of way of life are probably appealing to modern people.

Arjuna while not exactly the "last man" but he's pretty close in fact that he forsook his own internal struggle and doubt, opted instead to just throw it away and give blind devotion to God. If we drew parallel probably he is what devout Christian is, or blind follower of cult, except his God does exist in front of him as his charioteer.. anyway when Khrisna said white is black then white is black it is for Arjuna. His obidience and wholehearted devotion to Gods is highlighted as good traits in the literature however I believe it does not appeal to modern people..