Thread:Valeth/@comment-118.70.177.74-20170801015239/@comment-4981064-20170803075555

@Valeth: Look, I don't play down Karna at all, what I've been saying so far is that he and Arjuna are equals for the most parts, I only have issue with you guys unfairly wanking him everywhere to be the clearly stronger one.

all deeds in actual battle have have demonstrated that while they are mostly equals, Arjuna still the one that is better overall, having defeated Karna around 5 times total in all of Mahabharata before their final duel, that said, even if we going by words alone, there are still characters that consider Arjuna to be superior.

Karna’s teacher, Kripa believes that Arjuna is superior to Karna: http://sacred-texts.com/hin/m04/m04049.htm "What, however, O Kama, hath been achieved by thee single-handed like any of the sons of Pandu, each of whom had alone subjugated many lords of earth? Even Indra himself is unfit to encounter Partha in battle. He, therefore, that desireth to fight with Arjuna should take a sedative. As to thyself, thou desirest to take out the fangs of an angry snake of virulent poison by stretching forth thy right hand and extending thy forefinger. Or, wandering alone in the forest thou desirest to ride an infuriate elephant and go to a boar without a hook in hand. Or, rubbed over with clarified butter and dressed in silken robes, thou desirest to pass through the midst of a blazing fire fed with fat and tallow and clarified butter. Who is there that would, binding his own hands and feet and tying a huge stone unto his neck, cross the ocean swimming with his bare arms? What manliness is there in such an act? O Kama, he is a fool that would, without, skill in weapons and without strength, desire to fight with Partha who is so mighty and skilled in weapons? Dishonestly deceived by us and liberated from thirteen years' exile, will not the illustrious hero annihilate us? Having ignorantly come to a place where Partha lay concealed like fire hidden in a well, we have, indeed, exposed to a great danger. But irresistible though he be in battle, we should fight against him. Let, therefore, our troops, clad in mail, stand here arrayed in ranks and ready to strike. Let Drona and Duryodhana and Bhishma and thyself and Drona's son and ourselves, all fight with the son of Pritha. Do not O Kama, act so rashly as to fight alone. If we six car-warriors be united, we can then be a match for and fight with that son of Pritha who is resolved to fight and who is as fierce as the wielder of the thunderbolt. Aided by our troops arrayed in ranks, ourselves--great bowmen--standing carefully will fight with Arjuna even as the Danavas encounter Vasava in battle.'"

Parshuram's opinion: http://sacred-texts.com/hin/m05/m05096.htm "Indeed, that Arjuna is irresistible in fight, who hath for his friend Narayana--the Creator and Lord of all the worlds--fully acquainted with the course of everything. Who is there in the three worlds, O Bharata, who would venture to vanquish that hero--the Ape-bannered Jishnu--who hath no equal in battle? Countless are the virtues that reside in Partha."

@FGOHikaru the entire part you quoted is Krishna praising Karna Celestial Equipment, not how superior he is.

the first part talks about K&K, Arjuna indeed could not vanquish Karna when he have them, however, that does not mean that he can't be defeated (defeated in Mahabharata meant being forced to retreat), nor does that mean that Karna could vanquish Arjuna.

but yes, if Karna had his Shakti, he would have been able to defeat Arjuna, this, again, does not speak much about Karna ability, just the ability of the weapon, and if he didn't trade away his K&K, he would never get his hand on Shakti in the first place, still, for the short duration that Karna had his Shakti, he indeed more powerful than Arjuna.