Talk:Siegfried/@comment-34484799-20180321052630/@comment-31734709-20180323174942

I wasn't particularly complaining about him. It's fine to bring George too. I was not adressing his issues per se, but the reasons why he is hated. Most of those reasons don't apply to me because I just don't care.

By the way, your math is wrong - you just added 150% +80% [Buster]+50%? To it. Though I can't really say much about the 150% multiplier as I don't remember if it's actually 1,5x damage total or 2,5x damage total, since this wiki used to be irregular in counting those from what I remember, Dragon Slayer certainly wouldn't be added like that. Disregarding the natural 150% boost from the NP Anti-dragoness, Dragon Slayer would be +80% -> +320% or something. I'm not sure if you added the Buster boost and the multiplier, so no comment on that.

Anyway. As I said, one of the issues is him lacking general use, which is part of the cause of the hate - or rather, getting him rather than getting any other saber that has a broader use.

For those that already have other sabers, it's usually a case of "I already have a much more easy/generally usable saber, I don't need him".

For those who saw a Saber card for the first time - newbies are let down on his damage plus the lack of damage and then hates him for it - veterans are expecting someone that would solve their lack of sabers problem, but he doesn't very well do that.

It's fine to use George, but that requires actually leveling George, which is not bad at all. However, not everyone is on the mind that low stars are good, and many would rather invest in their 4☆ and 5☆. Additionally, that basically kills any critical based setups on Siegfried, but that's "minor".

The other issue which isn't George himself is event farming. On the ongoing Saber Wars in JP, Siegfried is fine as he has places to shine. However, in events with high HP enemies outside of his Niche, he lacks the damage to make your farm quicker. It is also fairly often that you'll want to bring event servants - but the farm is hard with only them, so you bring a single servant with class advantage. And for those that only have Siegfried to use [for whatever reason] will resent his lack of damage that makes their farm slow. And you don't bring George in that case because simply he would eat yet another Event Bonus Servant spot.

Further, outside of Berserker/Lancer enemies he does get close to a class advantage damage against dragons with Dragon Slayer. You can also say, that he -only- gets close to a class advantage against dragons.

As I said, those who have already invested in other sabers will be unlikely to invest on him unless they have leftover resources, whereas newbies don't have the resources to invest on his skills. The most common stopping point is level 4 - which gives him 59% damage against dragons. It's a berserker's worth, and it's nice.

It, however, lasts for three turns, at a 5 turns cooldown when maxed, at a 7 for those that didn't want to invest on him. Comparing to bringing any class advantage, Siegfried will either, for low skills, have a berserker's worth less than half the time, or for high levels, "only" close to a class advantage for a little more than half the time, and normal damage for at least 2 turns. While the one with class advantage will have their 2x damage bonus for all turns, and depending on who it is, they can likely increase their attack further beyond.

You could say that he could close that gap with the bonus from NP plus Dragonslayer. He might. It depends.

Bringing supports for him would also be annoying in the non-class advantage battle. Most of them [dragons] are Riders, so bringing an Caster [Shakespeare, Merlin, Waver] can lead to early death. Nightingale can work, but as Riders have a decent tendency to crit, she may get killed. Leonidas could work too and Mata Hari could also increase his damage in a versus Riders battle.

Basically it's annoying to use him as a general use saber or even in a vs dragons with no class advantage. He didn't have much going for him [as himself, not Sieg] on the anime to bring him more fans. Those with other sabers... have other sabers. Newbies are let down by him, plus the hate on him make them feel like he's useless, even if he's not that bad.

Rather, he has bad points, but they can be solved - but the thing here is, that there is bad points to be solved in first place. That's an annoying characteristic for any game characters, regardless of how easy it is to overcome such issues, and contributes to the hate on him.