Talk:Kiyohime/@comment-31760473-20170508023118/@comment-28048698-20170508063844

The problem with the "a value that cannot be quantified under the normal system because it is in a league of its own" phrase is how it's ambigous, one could ask "why it's a league of its own?". Being in "a league of its own" can have many meanings. It can means it's so powerful that it have his own league (just like comparing an amateur soccer player with, I don't know, Pelé, or an amateur singer with Michael Jackson), or it can means it needs another kind of value to be measured.

That's why I bolded the "powerful to the extent of rendering comparisons meaningless". Because there they explain what kind of "own league" they are talking about. It's a very specific phrase, without any kind of ambiguous meaning. It have his own league because it's totally powerful. Just like it's meaningless to compare a rank-A parameter with a rank-A Noble Phantasm (somewhere it's stated that Noble Phantasm ranks are higher than parameters).

Once again, "EX = OP" isn't a mistake. It's a fact. And that fact doesn't contradict what you are saying about Ionioi Hetairoi. The rank of the Noble Phantasm tell us how is the maximum power of the Noble Phantasm. Let's say Enuma Elish (Rank EX Noble Phantasm) can do 100.000 units of damage (just saying a random number to explain). It doesn't means Gilgamesh will do 100.000 damage everytime he use Enuma Elish, it just means he will do 100.000 if he use the full power of that Noble Phantasm. But if he want he can do only 50.000 or 20.000.

The same happen with Ionioi Hetairoi. His rank EX mean he can be OP at his full power, summoning the best soldiers and all that. With his full power, Ionioi Hetairoi can be so powerful that it's it is own league. Amateurs and veterans are in different leagues when we talk about competitions, right? In the sports, in some games (like Challengers in League of Legends, to use a specific example), even in social events.

And about the thing of Fate's franchise becoming bigger... In fact this problem with the EX rank didn't appeared when the franchise becoming biggers, this appeared with only ONE work in the franchise: Fate Grand Order. The same game that go against a lot of Nasuverse's basis (CS regenerating, Masters with a lot of Servants, Alters being summonable, gods being summonable, etc, etc, etc; there is always a wannabe explanation given to us trying to make sense to how they they go against what they told us in previous works). Grand Order isn't reference point for Nasuverse things.

Maybe I'm wrong about this last thing, because I don't know 100% every Fate work. If there is another weird EX outside Fate Grand Order I can try to look about it and see if it can be interpreted with my point of view or not. But right now the explanation about the EX rank is very specific: '''powerful, not weird, not special, not anything like that. Just powerful.''' And it's a bad thing, because that's the whole point of measuring with ranks, to know the power, not something else.