Talk:Hōzōin Inshun/@comment-38040348-20191013210416/@comment-40030758-20191118230357

Wow, this is happening now.

...Okay, so I can't understand all of your argument due to your grammar. No offense, I just can't. Anyway, I feel like you're underestimating how capable Inshun actually is as a fighter, especially seeing as his noble phantasm covers a wide variety of situations and he has a skill that boosts his parameters.

That being said, I've already covered the two of them fighting against Karna(don't know why you brought up how a Gawain vs Karna fight would go - it isn't relevant) as well as them fighting against Hercules. Not really sure why you replied that Herc would stall, but I'm assuming you were saying that Inshun couldn't stall for very long against Herc. In which case, I once again believe you're underestimating him. Herc is a skilled fighter with a large amount of strength, but even Saber was powerful enough to him once and hold her own in combat with him until she did. In terms of fighting prowess, Inshun would certain be able to last long enough to kill him a few times, much like Cu.

I've already talked about Cu's noble phantasm being offensive, which is more useful against certain opponents - especially since it can be used as a ranged attack. And Cu can certainly take out opponents of lower quality faster than Inshun can, yes. But that doesn't mean they aren't at the same tier of power - they're simply strong in different ways, as I've attempted to prove with previous servant comparisons. Still unsure of your argument against Siegfried's armor, as it doesn't register attacks unless they're of A-, with noble phantasms not dealing damage unless they're B+ or higher. Attacking a specific weak point is still something that any fighter learns to do if they're fighting someone that leaves one specific spot open to attack.

No clue why you brought Gil into this. I guess 'cause I said he and Karna are on the same level? I wasn't arguing that either wouldn't be able to hold their own against Gil by any means - Cu certainly has proved he can, and Inshun could avoid his attacks for a while (disregarding Ea), or even win if the fight was entirely in melee range. But, as I've said before, in pairings against ranged fighters he's at a disadvantage, and will lose 9 times out of 10. Cu would fair better due to having a ranged noble phantasm, but I've already adressed this advantage...twice. Also, Emiya doesn't "need" Rho Aias to survive against him, it's just what gives him that extra edge. Even Emiya would lose if Gilgamesh decided to, and had enough time to, use Ea, but that's an entirely different discussion.

Finally, Inshun could beat Berserker Lancelot if - once again - the fight took place primarily in close range. If Berserker Lancelot decided to pull out the jet from Fate Zero, both Inshun and Cu would be screwed. So long as he doesn't use contructs like that, Cu could take him by surviving any if his more lethal attacks and killing him with Gae Bolg, whilst Inshun would be a better fighter than he is when it comes to melee weaponry. And also be able to recognize how to best to deal with any of Lancelot's more dangerous constructs - like his machine gun -- because dealing with unknown fighting styles is literally what his noble phantasm does.

Also, he is not "only a staller." In the beginning of Shimousa Musashi stated several times that she did not believe she could defeat Inshun whilst he was not Purgatorio. His noble phantasm makes him a more dangerous fighter as time goes on, up to a certain point (which I never argued against), yes, but by no stretch of the imagination is a weak servant without that bonus.

This is not a conversation saying that "Inshun is just as good as Cu in every way." It's a conversation that's saying "Generally, in terms of power and lethality, the two are equal." Especially since their fighting styles are different. Still really confused about some of the arguments you've made, but I'm just gonna post this and not respond to anything else 'cause this is becoming a waste of time (plus this is entirely too much text to be under one set of replies).