Talk:Artoria Pendragon (Lily)/@comment-33554087-20180314172250/@comment-29893250-20180316041626

Lily is cheaper than Artoria. Artoria costs 16 to field, Lily 12. Citing that you can use 3 stars that will work just fine doesn't save vanilla Artoria. It just shows that both are weak. Of course, I wouldn't say that any NP1 SR will beat Lily for wave clearing because they won't even get close. They will have a 300% modifier and Lily a 700%. Even as bad as her stats are, Lily is still a welfare so at least her NP damage gets the benefit of being NP5. For example...

Saber alter NP1: 85034

Lily NP5: 91623

The point of it wasn't to say the wave clearing was necessarily super important or hard to come by but rather that there's basically as of this time no task in the game involving a built up team (as opposed to saying you have some lv 1-30 servants and are asking what servant you'd take to support to carry you in which case the answer is neither Artoria nor Lily) where you would want to use vanilla Artoria NP1 over Lily NP5 because Artoria is just that bad, barring very, very corner case situations such as Artoria being a boosted, giving extra drops, or one of those rare, rare cases where you allowed some NP to hit your team and were able to defend your squishier, non class resisting servants but had to leave someone out to tank being Lily or Artoria and Artoria's higher base hp saved her. Generally, if you can't defend, you were either screwed regardless of which was tanking it or it wouldn't kill lily either. This usually hinges on whether we're talking about a lancer AOE NP or a lancer ST NP. It doesn't often go in the middle. Yes, I do have Artoria. I also have Mordred and Altera. I've many times thought to myself "I should use Mordred. She'd be good for this". I've also thought to myself "I should use Altera. She'd be good for this". Never once have I ever thought to myself similar about Artoria.

Mordred has 2.5 things that make her stand out from other sabers. She can self cleanse which was useful in cases like the Cu Scathach nero fest challenge. She obviously kills Artorias. And she's the only AOE saber who can charge herself allowing her to fire off right away without the benefit of a lb kaleidescope or waver. The 30 charge allows you to use a regular scope or more commonly a 50% charge CE plus Merlin or similar.

Attila has higher base stats, has some survivability in a heal, and can grab crit stars to herself for more selfish damaging.

Artoria has higher base hp which rarely matters as she's actually less capable of survival than either of these two generally (Mordred can tank on critical turns with her def boost and as long as Attila isn't one shotted, she'll heal up and have more hp to work with than her) and only beats them out with a pretty small haircut of damage while overall damage yield is lower than Altera's since she does so much more with her attacks and ability to drag crit stars to herself while brave chaining. Long story short, Artoria has few advantages and those that do exist are mostly irrelevant. About all she's got over them is charisma. Except that charisma is the worst kind of support in difficult battles. Attila will still significantly outdamage her. Mordred's secret of pedigree will save your skin much more surely. You'd literally have to manufacture battles where the enemies are just strong enough to survive them but not Artoria for her to get an edge on them.