Talk:Artoria Pendragon/@comment-25685875-20170713064835/@comment-36.81.48.184-20170723153418

I don't think Vortigern slaying Uther had anything to do with the decline of age of mysteries and the rise of Arthur as champion of mankind tho? The prophercy are set and as I said either way Vortigern will rise against any version of Arthur, point is Vortigern is the Britain rejecting rise of mankind, however that's only true once he drink the blood of dragon and rise as Avatar of Britain because he's cornered by the superpowerful Artoria. Who knows what will happen if king Arthur never take the stage, it'll end in speculation in the end tho so it's not important.

Also no one fucking forced Artoria to take that stupid ideal of king, from before she pulled the sword she already have that idiotic notion of 'perfect king' when Merlin asked the question. Her ideal of king is as dumb as Shirou Ally of Justice fetish, the ideal itself is beautiful but if the ideals doesn't work then it's time to ditch it, However Artoria and Shirou are similar in that they blindly followed the ideal even tho they both realized that it simply doesn't works, that's the basic similarity highlighted between Shirou and Saber in Fate route and as the basis of their character, that's where they're similar as pea in a pod, you should re-read that horrible route again if you don't believe me.

Problem is when you're responsible for a country you're literally putting cart before the horse if you try put your fairytale bout ideal king above your goal of saving Britain or even managing her court properly. Hence her regret, and hence why she wanted to re-do her rule even before F/Z even being written. Artoria being such an idiot should be blamed as much as the round table who failed to follow her logic and intention, blaming it all on her subordinate is just blantant favoritism.

If you think that ideal bureaucracy is an indefferent mechanical one then probably you read too much of Weber and pretty much failed to look at reality like those two, I won't go much into much detail, you're free to look up why it doesn't work in practice but in short If all it takes to run a country is excellent impartial bureaucrat then we all should be lead by machine.. However the part bout resolving drought and whatever, have you ever questioned how did Artoria resolve those? how can a knight who hardly any ability outside combat solve some agriculture problem or mitigating disaster? Even if she could did she did it alone? The obvious answer is that her subordinate does it, she oversee it and thus it can be infered that she's excellent project manager, true, however it doesn't change the reality that she's suck as "leader", she can't keep her subordinate together when they're not in a 'project', naturally the team will crumble if she keep piling dissastifaction over dissatisfaction without motivating her crews, pretty much the bullshit that Iskandar said.

Well if she's driven to cosmic suicide that easily then pretty much that's all it is on her, in fact she end up even more resolute afterwards to re-do her kingship, freaking girl learns nothing till Shirou pounded her Vag00. The bullshit of F/Z is as much as bullshit of you streching that everything is the fault of people who can't understand the king while ignoring her flaw. What Iskandar said pretty much makes sense; it makes sense for people who lived along side her because she utterly failed at communicating her intent to her subordinate, What she cares about is herself and her ideal, this goes bothway because Roundtable is bunch of egoist misfit who cannot see beyond themselves with few exception, and those exception leaving her is the key of her downfall, Agravain fully understood the King, thus he try to made up her shortcoming in communication by making himself the common enemy of Camelot thus uniting the fragile group. Even more important is Kay understood the King, however he decided that the King are drown to deep in her ideal that he can no longer understand his 'brother' thus decided to abandon her at the very end.

The story of err in human relation goes bothway, but what strikes her as failure is your so called bullshit from Iskandar, is that Artoria can only see herself and herself only, "The King had no choice to be alone", pretty much summed her whole reign. From beginning she choose to isolate herself, it doesn't take a genius to figure that communication goes both way. Her failure still steemed in her inability to maintain human relation, this is among the basic of basic of her background as the King who failed to understand her subject. In the first place Iskandar is as mad to Artoria as to people around her who let her be, you can re-read the novel if you don't believe me and most probably this is the same sentiment Shirou had to the round tables, Artoria is like that and the round table just let her be while keep burdening her with expectation, sounds like malfunctioning government in my ears..

It's fine to be an incompetent King, in fact the notion of ideal king by itself is subjective and there's hardly any ruler who don't have any failure in their life, King Arthur rule are doomed to fail no matter what is the reason, In Artoria case it's because she's inept at human relation due to her one-track mind of pursuing her ideals, thus her rule ends in a decade. Her flaws is what make Artoria, Artoria and not King Arthur written by Monthy Python.

tl;dr : Like I said, the problem is her bad management of her court and subject. Her decision might be impeccable but that doesn't change the fact she failed to manage her "staff", The dissatisfaction of her 'staff' is the trigger of her downfall, this much is a fact. How the king rules in the first place is OOT for what I describe is simply the reason of her downfall.

P.S if you're interested in tale of the real 'perfect King' go look for Chandragupta Maurya, his legend is pretty similar but he's everything that Artoria is not, especially not in being inhumane robot.