Talk:Sieg/@comment-35080849-20180613070626/@comment-36465691-20180804221455

@Efbiai

-Because there is absolutely nothing to like about him

Endearingly sweet, innocent, flawed but good-natured, sympathetic, makes mistakes but does his best regardless, open-minded, willing to learn from others, has significant development from a scared tool just desperate to escape to a shy and humble young man willing to seal himself in a world full of monsters just so people can live their lives on their own terms. Which is a fresh change of pace from cynical asshole protags/flawless, perfect, harem obtaining uberprotags(*coughKiritocough)

-He ruined the whole show.

Played as a great foil to Jeanne, Amakusa, Mordred, Siegfried, and Karna. Has some of the best fights in the series. Gives a great 'outsider-looking in' neutral viewpoint on humanity that accentuates the themes of apocrypha instead of Jeanne's all humans are good and Shirou's all humans are evil black and white viewpoints. Great message on finding your own reasons to live and humbling scene of accepting his fate for the sake of others.

Also not to mention all the other things in the show such as the character arcs that had satisfying if bittersweet conclusions unrelated to Sieg like Mordred, Chiron, Achilles, Jack and her Master, Kairi, Caules etc etc. Not to mention all those awesome fight sequences. The very nice character interactions and interesting characterization which are abundant in the novels but not as much in the anime sadly.

-He is just a useless homunculus,

Yeah. Except for that time he helped free his siblings, saved astolfo from fading away, saved Caules and Fiore from certain death, helped the others defeat Adam, fought Karna to prevent him from killing Ruler which helped Karna fulfill his promise with Siegfried in spirit, managed to beat Amakusa and gave up his life to spend an eternity in the reverse side to make it so jeanne's sacrifice would not be in vain.

-who is boring,

Subjective. Personally, I and quite a few others either found him interesting or simple but all the same endearing.

-has no feelings,

Did you actually watch the show past episode 6? Or read past volume 1? He's subdued but he's one of the more emotional characters of the entire cast. Which makes sense what with his lack of experience making him more emotional frail than the experienced heroes in the war.

-gets OP for no real reason

Barring the fact Jeanne immediately points the Counter Force/Will of the Lord is using Sieg as it's tool to stop Amakusa, Siegried, setting up the narrative of following one's own desires, gives him his heart. And Sieg in the spiritual realm after being cut down by Mordred after trying to save Astolfo's conciously decides to throw his chance at a peaceful life away after being revived by Fran's lightning to take up Siegfried's sword if it lets him help others. And he's not even OP. Strong but not OP. He loses to Mordred still due to his not having a warrior's mentality even with Siegfrieds power and fighting skills. Needs everyone's help to defeat Adam. Manages to fight Karna even through repeated Balmung's that cause a great strain on his body and would have died had it not been for Astolfo's interference, and even when reduced to only having Fran's galvanism against a wounded and one-armed Shirou he still barely manages a win thanks to nearly blowing himself up had it not been that his Blasted Tree was significantly weaker than Fran's. That doesn't scream neither 'no reason' or 'OP' to me.

-steals the spotlight from other, more interesting and well written characters.

Everyone has their own scenes, backstories, and arcs with a decent amount of time especially so in the novel. Contrary to overexaggerated complaints, Apocrypha isn't just a one-stop Sieg show. Everyone has their own story in Apocrypha. Sieg just happens to be a major part in it.

-Just after a few days of living and without any experience in life, he decides if humanity is worth saving or not.

Because he actually you know lived and experienced the extremes of both humanities good and bad sides in those few days most wouldn't in an entire lifetime, was influenced by the other heroes especially Karna at the end who expresses his pride as a hero to protect humanity, and didn't want Jeanne's sacrifice to go waste nor did he want people's choices and ability to live their own lives taken from them(something he narrowly escaped himself thanks only to people who embodied the innate goodness in people).

- He turns into the main hero from a small side role and always wins only because of some cheap deus ex machina, pulled out of the writer's @sshole. Basically he is a lame Mary Sue in the story.

The main hero is Jeanne who gets the Black Faction together and moves the plot along, Sieg is a supporting protagonist to her. And again, he loses to Mordred. Works alongside others with Adam. Survived against Karna thanks to means and reasons established beforehand(Astolfo and Achilles both being givers and receivers in legend so that Astolfo could receive the shield, Chiron using Achilles soft-heartedness towards him to get him to hand over the shield to Rider in the first place, and Astolfo's bond with Sieg giving him the courage to jump into the fray in the first place with his sense of fear and reason back) and takes advantage of one crucial moment to win, and Fran's lightning against was foreshadowed since volume 1 explaining her abilities to it pointing out Blasted Tree's traits, Amakusa fighting Fran as a test to see if the lord approved of his plan or not(vol 2), it hitting sieg and that part that explains as long as her lightning exists she'll still live(vol 2), (Vol 3/anime)Sieg jumping in to save Caules from Adam without thinking, (volume 4)Sieg rapidly healing from getting shot by Reika while being poisoned by Jack's fog and still be strong and fast enough to catch the bullets and destroy them with magic. So when he snaps and uses her power against Shirou it's not just an @sspull, it's something that's long been set-up coming into fruition.

-Oh, and not to mention the rage of Jeanne fans about the love confession.

RIGHT? HOW DARE she fall in love with someone who saw and treated her as a person, never asking her to change who she was, has a sweet if subdued chemistry with, admired her as both a hero and person, understood and trusted her and didn't betray her(like the people she tried to protect in life) even when it came out she was basically using his trust in her for the sake of stopping Amakusa, and reminded her of her humanity as Jeanne the girl and not the saint of Orleans she was forcing herself to be even after her death and having a pure, platonic relationship(not romantic. there is a difference.) that doesn't violate her vows to god with him at the end of the story, instead of remaining single for the bitter sacks of flesh beating their meat to her and making a mockery of her vow of chastity in life and sanctity as a woman sworn to god every night that call their selves her 'fans' and their FGO self-inserts.

-Altogether the Fate/Apo had so much potencial, but at the end it was degraded to an uninteresting fanfic, mostly because of him.

Yeah but nearly every complaint and grievance you brought up has been objectively wrong so maybe Sieg isn't the issue here. Apocrypha was a love/letter to Nasu's fate that had it's own message and story it wanted to tell. It did what it set out to do and did it beautifully albiet a bit flawed here and there. Shame you couldn't see that.