Talk:Ishtar/@comment-30444758-20181122213507/@comment-35280522-20181124215956

First thing first. If starts are low, Gilgamesh has the upper hand not Isthar. Why? Simple. Gilgamesh will absorb all starts (6%150=900% so even if you take rider with he will absord most of them for sure). So he has a way higher chance of actually hitting critical with 10-20 stars than Ishta, unless you pull all 5 of his cards. If there are a lot of stars, then Ishtar wins by her 1st skill on damage, not on chance.

Second, without help, neither can get good amout of stars (like really good) but Gil wins overall as neither has any passive in this and has better hit counts. So your point about needing help for critical is true for both but between my 1st and second point Gilgamesh wins without help for sure on critical hitting, not damage.

Third, it is true if she hits, her critical damage is higher than his. That is a point for her. While critical damage is important, I think that consistent critical damage is more important even if lower, as consistent but lower critical damage increases also NP gain more. (The comparison is actually a bit more subtle, under the specific case that the extra critical damage is the reason why you overkill, but on that the next point).

Overall, the third point push Ishtar not towards consistency but towards burst. Gilgamesh, compare to her is more consistent but lest "bursty".

Fourth, you seem to be missing the cooldowns. He has slightly lower average (1.7) on his arts (compared to 1.9 of her) but he has better NP gain on quicks, buster (if starts with arts) and extra. That is without his skill that is up 60% of the time. Then he wins in all cards. In fact, given his hits counts, his overkill also means higher NP gain on average for him than Ishtar.

You may claim that Ishtar battery is 50% (on CD 6) while Gilgamesh is 30% (on CD 5) helping Ishtar. However, as Gil skill is only offensive you use it without any kind of restriction. You cannot do that on Ishtar second skill if you are planning, like you said, to use it as defense. I would not, as I think is not worth it and would just use it. But if you are relying, which I think you should not, on that 80% invincibility for protection, then you cannot used it every 6 turns.

But for the sake of comparing say that you do, as I myselft think that you should. Then, overall, NP gain is pretty fair. I still think that unless you have a lot of stars Gil NP gain will be higher once you factor critical hits on different ranges of stars: low level on average neither hits, on super high level both hit but on middle level by point 1 I made, Gil will hit critical more often than Ishtar, implying overall higher NP gain.

5th. First, even without the weak to enuma elish Gil NP damage is higher on the 5 levels of NP. You can look at that here https://fategrandorder.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Ein_Inferno/NP_Damage_Comparisons#Archer. I think (don't wanna do the math) that once Ishtar gets her upgrade, she will win overall. However, 2 years in the game with her and she has not received it. So for now it is only wishful thinking (BELIEVE ME I want her to win, she is my waifu.) Now, with weak to enuma elish the comparison is ridicoulous. And weak to enuma elish is not "Rama's demonic trait" which is almost non existant. Is so big that you usually mention the ones that are not weak to enuma elish.

Now I don't understand your point of "Sure he is effective against Saber and Berserkers, but what about Neutral Classes or Classes that works against him?" Even if we forget the 5th point, would not that be true also for Ishtar? Now once you factor the 5th point I made, it is actually a point in favor of Gilgamesh, not Ishtar.

6th. You may claim that Ishtar NP's buster up is actually better than Gilgamesh NP's np damage up, as it affects all her subsequent cards buster cards. You are absolutely right on that. However, you need to put her buster cards on the same turn for her to benefit of that. You better pray the gods that every time you wanna use her NP she has another B card. How the hell is that consistent? If anything I would say that that is more burst (again).

Conclusion: as a damage dealer, he is way more consistent than her. She is more bursty. Both have RNG dependent factors, but Gilgamesh is less RNG overall. Who I recommend to roll for? Ishtar. She is Rin after all. But objectively, Gilgamesh is better. No doubt about that.